Sara Argenta and Erin McIntire shared with us tonight regarding the occult, or putting faith in something besides Jesus. Very eye-opening topic.
So, do you have questions about it? Comments? Were there particularly meaningful points you'd like to elaborate on? If so, we'd love to hear it...
I sent the following email to a friend who suggested I post this here to share with others...
ReplyDeleteSo – last night we had a workshop at H&D on the occult. I was initially a little bummed that occult and accusation were not flipped since I will be out of town for accusation – I was thinking there was not much in occult that I would benefit from. (haha – I KNOW God was rolling on the floor laughing at that one!!!).
Workshop was great – I took lots of notes and did a bit of reading and praying last night after I got home. I didn’t put too much consideration into what might be lying around my house in the way of objects associated with the occult.
So this morning I get up, do my little routine, take the dogs to the basement to kennel them and there in the middle of the floor is a piece of paper. Thinking to myself, “well that is odd – where did that paper come from?” But I was rushing so I paid it no mind (well actually I sort of kicked it out of the path), put the dogs up and started to go back upstairs. Then I got that familiar “stab”. I went over and picked up the paper.
It was a letter from my mother from Easter of 1990!!!! She had given me a statue of Mary and a letter with how I should pray to Mary every day and she had written a prayer for me to pray. As soon as I saw what it was I started cracking up uncontrollably. I am just amazed that God put that piece of paper in the center of my floor!!!!!!! Of course I threw the letter away and started to leave for work. Thought better of that and went back to the basement to find that statue (tucked back onto a shelf loaded with junk) so I could throw it away. So – I got to laughing at the absurdity of it all. But not just laughing – I was nearly in tears it was so funny – just thinking about how God works. I didn’t even remember keeping that stuff – but God knew where it was!! Then of course the seriousness of it set in and the tears were more remorseful and asking for forgiveness.
I'm really struggling with a point that was brought up about it being against God to speak to people who have died. My daughter died 5 years ago and every now and again I just say "hi" or "I love you and miss you". I do not expect an answer. I do not pray to her. I just say something and move on. I am trying not to be defensive about this topic - but as you can imagine, it's tough. I can't imagine how this grieving mother can be offending God by just saying a word to her baby girl. And - I believe that she is in heaven with God and that being the case, is she truly dead or has she not got the eternal life gifted to us in Christ's name and sacrifice? I am praying that God reveals Himself to me on this topic and trying not to let it overwhelm me. I think that I feel a sense of grief over the possibility that a)I am dishonoring God by talking to Journey and b)feeling a renewed sense of loss about closing this door. Does that make sense?
ReplyDeleteAside from that, I left feeling slightly discouraged and defeated (and I might mention, I have been under attack lately regarding other things I am doing in God's name...). Right this minute my daughter is watching a Strawberry Shortcake movie where they are fairies and I'm trying not to become obsessive about what subtle message is within that I might be missing. And don't even get me started about the concept that Santa and the Easter Bunny being rooted in the occult. Seriously - my head is spinning and I feel exhausted by the level of vigilance it seems to require to live a Godly life.
Hi Jenny,
ReplyDeleteThanks for posting such an honest and open response to what you heard last night.
First, I was not there last night, so I can't speak to exactly what was said.
I do want to tell you that I believe CONSULTING with the dead or TRYING TO MAKE CONTACT with the dead is not of the Lord per the passage in Deuteronomy 18. I don't believe what you are doing with Journey is of the occult. Let your heart be at peace.
I do know that a line can be easily crossed and the enemy can slip in, though (but I don't believe this has happened in your case, but I feel this deserves mention).
I have a friend who used to do what you did and say loving words to someone who has passed. Then, when she wasn't seeking it out, she started to hear something back. I believe at that point the enemy snuck in and it became occultic. It wasn't that she heard the Lord speaking to her... she heard the spirit of this loved one speaking to her. There is a big difference. The Lord can certainly speak to us and comfort us. Loved ones who have passed can not.
Secondly, I would just encourage you to use your discernment about things like Santa and the Easter Bunny.... and fairies and such. To me, make believe isn't necessarily occultic, but it can be. I remember years ago my husband and I were reading the Harry Potter books together. It was fun- we enjoyed it. But about on the 3rd book, I just felt like God didn't want me to read them anymore. But I know a lot of other believers who think they are okay. That's just what God was speaking to me about it.
I do think there are plenty of things that are very clearly Occult - like Ouija boards and fortune tellers. But there are other things that I think you can trust your own discernment to.
It's very good to have a heightened sense of awareness of things that maybe you didn't consider before. But trust God in his ability to speak to you about what's okay and what is not for you. He definitely will. I trust His ability to speak and yours to hear.
Let me know if you'd like to talk more. I'm open.
Dora
I'm feeling much better after your post and meeting with my small group. Thanks for taking the time to post.
ReplyDeleteIn the mean time, I have another question. Numerology wasn't on the list and I was curious about whether or not that was considered of the occult. I ask because it doesn't seem to me to be about predicting the future but more about connectivity. Numbers seem significant in the Bible and I'm curious. Thoughts?
Thanks!
Hi Jenny. This is Steven.
ReplyDeleteIt's true that numbers have meaning in the Bible: 40 always refers to completion, 7 is perfection, 6 is the number of man (or sin), etc. Knowing that kind of thing can be helpful in seeing God's heart. But knowing the Judaic significance of numbers is NOT numerology.
Numerology is the mystical study of numbers as they relate to physical beings or the future, and it's on a par with astrology: it's a way of prediction apart from Jesus. So yes, it's occultic. Strictly speaking, it's divination: looking for big-picture answers somewhere other than the revelation of Jesus. Divination (or witchcraft) is part of control, because we don't trust God for our futures and we think that if we know a little MORE of these secrets we'll be safe from harm. For those of us in Christ, of course, that sort of thinking is doo doo; we have a Shepherd who 1) loves us, and 2) is in control. So we can just trust Him and walk in faith.
Anyhow, there it is. Don't mess with numerology.
(This is a new thread, and not pointed toward anyone on the comments above.)
ReplyDeleteJust an observation: I've seen a common theme in both breakout groups I've been a part of now. Occult tricks people into thinking that "sure, it's on the occult list, but I don't mean it that way, so it's not harmful" or "I don't really think I have a problem with this stuff, I can control what I think when I see this stuff".
If you find yourself justifying your actions it's a good time to REPENT and leave that junk in the dirt where it belongs. NOTHING is worth letting this creep into your life. No book or movie or TV show is worth my freedom. Stop defending it, get rid of it and move on (really).